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Discussion about multiple myeloma treatments, stem cell transplants, clinical trials, alternative medicines, supplements, and their benefits and side effects.

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by Multibilly on Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:31 pm

Hi Faithoverfear,

This is in response to the statement
The bones that hold your teeth all died on your very first treat­ment with Zometa. This is not a three-percent-of-the-time deal. It happens with every person that is treated with bisphosphonates. That bone will never recover.

I find this statement hard to believe. I'm not saying you may not be right, but I sure can't find anything online that supports your surgeon's assertion. Has anybody else ever heard this or can point me to an article that substantiates this statement?

Multibilly
Name: Multibilly
Who do you know with myeloma?: Me
When were you/they diagnosed?: Smoldering, Nov, 2012

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by TerryH on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:17 pm

I'm really glad you commented on that statement, Multibilly. I think it's unconventional, if not outright incorrect.

Osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ) does not occur because bisphosphonates kill bones. ONJ occurs because bone becomes more susceptible to processes that can lead to necrosis. More specifically, the two leading theories on why bisphosphonates sometimes cause ONJ are:

  1. The drugs interfere with the bone remodeling process, causing higher-than-normal exposure of the bone to infectious agents
  2. The drugs cause some sort of localized reduction in immune system function.
None of these theories involve the drugs "killing" the bone. Instead, it's about making areas of the bone more susceptible to necrotic processes.

This recent paper has more information on "medication-related" ONJ, including a discussion of the two theories of how ONJ develops:

Lombard, T, et al, "Medication-Related Osteonecrosis of the Jaw: New Insights into Molecular Mechanisms and Cellular Therapeutic Approaches", Stem Cells International, Sep 2016 (full text of article)

TerryH

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by coachhoke on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:54 pm

Osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ) remains "a complex and non effectively treatable disease," as the very detailed article pointed out by Terry H clearly states. So, again, it is important to weigh the pros and cons of taking bisphosphonates, as well as any drugs.

coachhoke
Name: coachhoke
When were you/they diagnosed?: Apri 2012
Age at diagnosis: 71

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by faithoverfear on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:36 pm

Many thanks for the conflicting point of view.

I accepted the surgeon's explanation without researching the validity. I hope you are right, I certainly don't want ONJ trouble for the rest of my life. I want to know for myself and will look into it very closely.

Again, thank you very much for speaking up.

Faithoverfear

faithoverfear
Who do you know with myeloma?: me
When were you/they diagnosed?: Sept 2014
Age at diagnosis: 63

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by faithoverfear on Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Again, thanks for questioning the explanation I received.

Not easy, but I did find something that explains it a bit. Here's the reference:

Anitua, E., et al, "PRGF exerts a cytoprotective role in zoledronic acid-treated oral cells," Clinical Oral Investigations, April 2016 (abstract)

First, that "special bone" is called alveolar bone. It is the bone with a socket that the tooth sticks to.

Here is the smoking gun paragraph:

"The in vitro results presented herein show that ZA exerts a dose-dependent cytotoxic effect on proliferation and survival of human primary gingival fibroblasts and alveolar osteoblasts (Figs. 1 and 3). The ability of ZA to inhibit cell growth and to promote cell death has already been described."

The graph shows the degree of apoptosis (cell death). It shows increasing bone death over the course of nine levels of exposure, meaning it is dose dependent as stated above. So the com­ment that the special bones die on the first treatment does not appear accurate. That does not mean we're in the clear. Read on.

"BPs are stored in the bone and slowly released to the immediate microenvironment thus affecting local gingival fibroblasts [1,23,25], which might involve that bone exposure to ZA concentrations is several-fold higher than the ones receiving gingival fibroblasts."

So, the Zometa is absorbed into the bone and slowly released. One question leads to another. How long does it take to dissipate?

I did a quick search. One source said that the bone half-life of Zometa is 360 days. Let's call it a year. Another source said ten years. I doubt anyone sat around for ten years. So it may be an questionable extrapolation.

The way I read it is: Zometa inhibits regeneration of alveolar bone in a dose dependent way. It can take between one and ten years for the affect to decrease 50%. Or two to twenty years for the affect to decrease 75%.

My take-away: If I take Zometa monthly for a year, my risk for ONJ is not going away anytime soon. And that is OK. I'd rather live longer and deal with the inconvenience of taking good care of my teeth and gums and maybe dealing with occasional ONJ.

Personally, I had just one dose of each Zometa and Aredia. The result was acute phase reaction both times and a trip to ER. Fortunately my bone lesions partially healed after the autologous stem cell transplant. Maybe a new treatment will be available by the time of relapse for me.

If you have the time, read the full article. Maybe you'll have a different interpretation. I'd be glad to be wrong and find that the ONJ risk is much less.

faithoverfear
Who do you know with myeloma?: me
When were you/they diagnosed?: Sept 2014
Age at diagnosis: 63

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by GaryH on Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:15 pm

I have been taking pamidronate (Aredia) for a long time (as in 15 some years). It was and still is recommended for me to take, to counter what this disease was doing to my bones, same as everyone that has multiple myeloma and is on these drugs. At this time my doctor still thinks the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

My doctor is well aware of the risks and keeps a close eye out for symptoms of osteonecrosis of the jaw. My dentist also takes a proactive approach, referring me to a dental surgeon. This dental surgeon is right on top of the latest and greatest info regarding this issue. What he recommended, about 6 years ago, was to give me root canals on all my upper teeth, followed by grinding them down in profile. Then I got fitted for upper dentures. This has worked out ok, although i would still prefer my own teeth.

If, as has been suggested, ONJ happens as soon as one takes Zometa, or pamidronate, then it would follow that the mandible would shrink as it dies. If that happened, then the teeth would not be supported and fall out. That isn't happening with me. It was explained that the taking of these drugs leaves a deposit of something (I can't remember what) in the jaw bones. This is inert until one has a tooth extraction, or other surgery, and exposes the damage to the air. Then, if not allowed for in the treatment, if an infection develops, it has the potential to become ONJ. I am no expert, but that explanation works for me.

GaryH
Name: GaryH
Who do you know with myeloma?: Myself
When were you/they diagnosed?: Nov./97
Age at diagnosis: 44

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by faithoverfear on Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:45 pm

Congratulations on fifteen years. So cool!

So glad that the treatment is working for you. Aredia is very different from Zometa. Zometa is something like 800 times stronger than Aredia. You can get an idea of the difference if you compare the half-life of each.

Your experience is good real life information.I read that we become resistant to bisphosphonate treatment in a dose dependent way. You've gone fifteen years on Aredia. That puts that issue to rest.

If I need a bisphosphonate, I will definitely go for Aredia. Thanks for sharing.

Let yourself be happy. Your gut and your immune system will thank you.

faithoverfear
Who do you know with myeloma?: me
When were you/they diagnosed?: Sept 2014
Age at diagnosis: 63

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by faithoverfear on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:15 am

This suggestion may help minimize your risk of osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ).

ONJ happens when there is damage to the gums, which lets bacteria attack the dead bone. So, one suggestion is to build up your gums. Creatine does that pretty well. It's cheap, tasteless, and helps repair damage to the GI system. I was surprised by how quickly it works, noticeable within a month. Bone broth works too. They say that there is nothing to do about receding gum lines. Well, I've seen improvement since starting daily bone broth about two months ago.

Hope this helps someone.

Let yourself be happy. (Honestly, that is my biggest challenge.)

faithoverfear
Who do you know with myeloma?: me
When were you/they diagnosed?: Sept 2014
Age at diagnosis: 63

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by mark101 on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:29 pm

Glad to see so many posts on Zometa and its effect on teeth. FYI - This is my first post on the forum and I apologize if this has been covered in other posts.

My dentist found that my jaw bone was exposed and he attributed the problem to Zometa. My multiple myeloma doctor took me off Zometa immediately.

A couple of months later I returned to the dentist when my molar tooth bothered me. He removed a piece of my jaw bone that felt like it was leaning up against my molar? After he removed it, the tooth pain was relived.

A month or so later, my dentist said I could begin Zometa treatments again if my multiple myeloma doctor wanted to.

I should point out that I first went in for the molar pain and wanted him to pull it. He was very upset and warned me of all possible terrible things that could happen if he did something like that while on Zometa. He said if I got an infection I could lose part of my jaw.

My multiple myeloma history:

Started a back ache in September 2014 and diagnosed in October 2014. Very fortunate because I had my regularly yearly physical scheduled in October. Unlike Tom Brokaw, who wasn't diagnosed for almost a year, I was diagnosed within a month or so after my first symptom.

Drugs - Revlimid 25 mg, dexamethasone 4 mg - 5 tab. per week, and was on once a month Zometa infusions. I am currently at the right level my doctor wants me at per her charts. She never mentions "in remission," which I notice mentioned sometimes. I figure I'm on maintenance.

Thanks,
Mark101

mark101

Re: Osteonecrosis of the jaw and Zometa

by vmeyer on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Andrew (goldmine848),

Do you know where your dentist got the idea of to use platelet-rich plasma injection during the procedure you had? Are there studies on the subject that you could refer me to?

I am posting this because my husband's dentist, who specializes in cancer patients, says she can see no way out for one of his teeth other than to extract it on May 10. He has taken Zometa, but not for a few months now. He would like to suggest platelet-rich plasma injection to his dentist after hearing about your experience. He is very nervous about having this done, going so far as wanting to review his living will before having it done.The tooth is very painful and the dentist says leaving it in is riskier than taking it out, even though she thinks that is risky as well.

vmeyer
Name: vmeyer
Who do you know with myeloma?: my husband
When were you/they diagnosed?: March 2016
Age at diagnosis: 65

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