[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:30 pm

One more study and then I will quit talking about this.

RJ Klement & U Kämmerer, "Is There a Role for Carbohydrate Restriction in the Treatment and Prevention of Cancer?," MedScape, Nutr Metab. 2011;8(75)

Here is a quick summary of the points in the study.

1. Cancer cells become more and more "addicted" to glucose and vulnerable to glucose deprivation. In vitro (in test tubes), cancer cells die when there is no glucose!
2. Adding insulin to the test tube with cancer cells and glucose stimulates cancer cells by another 20-40%!!
3. They did studies on animals and found even modest elevations in glucose impair the transport of ascorbic acid into immune cells - so immune cells can't fight the cancer cells.
4. High blood glucose produces inflammation - which also stimulates cancer.
5. Back in 1885, it was discovered that 70 out of 70 patients with cancer also had hyperglycemia (high blood glucose - like a diabetic)
6. Cancer cells themselves seem to secrete something that causes a person to have same reaction to sugar that someone with diabetes has.
7. If they cut out the tumor, there is not the reaction to blood glucose like a diabetic.

I asked my doctor on Monday why there is so little interest in this by other people with cancer. It is not just on this forum, but I have told at least 3 people about this in my daily life and no one seems interested.

My doctor said it is because permanently changing how a person eats is very difficult. He asked if my husband is willing to eat as I am eating. I said that he does not complain and eats what I eat, though sometimes I make rice for him, or serve a taco shell or something that I do not eat - and he eats a milk shake most nights - ha ha.

The doctor said that is probably a big reason I am able to follow this. Because if your family fights it, it is very difficult to make this change.

[Multibilly]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by Multibilly on Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:30 pm

Cathy,

Was reading through your thread today.

Was there any reason you didn't consider a cheap multi-test urine strip like this one (Phinex 10 Parameter Urinalysis Reagent Test Strips) to do your daily monitoring?

Yes, it's a bit more of a hassle than just doing a skin prick, but it costs so much less than a blood ketone test strip. Only costs about $0.16 / strip and you get glucose, protein and ketones in one fell swoop.

[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:48 am

Hi Multibilly.

Thanks for writing! There are a couple of reasons I don't use the less expensive keto strips.
One reason is that ketones are filtered out by the kidneys, so the amount in the blood is more accurate than knowing how much has passed into the urine.

I have spent a lot of money on my cancer. I added up the amount I spent and the insurance spent in the first year and it was around $578K. Also, Revlimid is very expensive, and I have been able to reduce the amount of Revlimid I take because of this diet. So, I figure $5 per ketone strips is expensive, but if I consider the big picture it is worth it to me.

You know how an A1c shows your average blood glucose level for the previous 3 months? A Ketone test at night seems to show my average blood glucose level for the previous day or two and that is my goal - to keep my blood glucose low and steady.

Thanks for asking!

Cathy

[Multibilly]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by Multibilly on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:58 am

Got it Cathy. I since read up more on this and realized that urine ketone and glucose testing just measures the amounts that spill over into one's urine when your serum levels are too high for your kidneys to process. So, it really is a different measurement. Thanks and good luck.

[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Thanks Multibilly

[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:07 pm

I have had a few people send me an email wanting to use the diet to "cure" cancer without using any of the drugs or the stem cell transplant.

That is not what I would recommend.

Even if I had it to do over and knowing what I know about the very low carb diets, I would still have had all the chemo drugs and steroids and the stem cell transplant - and just used the diet to prolong remission.

To go from almost 1000 to 15(before any treatment) is a lot farther than from 65 to 15 (after my stem cell transplant) The research I have seen seems to show that a very low carb diet might at least stop the increase of cancer cells. The problem with just stopping the progress of the myeloma and light chain deposition disease for me would have been that my kidneys were getting destroyed by it – I had to bring down the levels and bring them down fast. So, even though the chemo was tough and the stem cell transplant was tough, it completely stopped the destruction that the cancer was causing to my body. I am using the diet to prolong remission, I don't know how it would work on “curing” cancer.

[Eric Hofacket]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by Eric Hofacket on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:47 pm

Cathy,

What is worse than having myeloma? Having myeloma and diabetes. I think what you are doing with your diet is helpful and worth the effort and your expectations are realistic. We had discussed on this forum earlier this year I believe that most people in western civilization, and Americans in particular, have far too much sugar in their diets and it would benefit their health significantly, cancer or not, to reduce sugar consumption. I do not see that diet alone can cure cancer, I do believe diet can work with or against cancer treatments and affect outcomes. I believe that in most clinical trials the diets of the trial participants is not something that is tracked and followed to look for any differences in outcomes of the trial participants. I think it would be interesting to see this done more often.

Referring to an earlier post you made, wouldn’t any cell die without glucose, not just cancer cells? It is my understand that all cell need glucose to survive, but most cancers with their higher metabolic rates need it more. I can see where reducing glucose may slow the metabolic rate of cancer, but I do not see how it is possible to eliminate glucose availability completely from cancer cells and not the other cells that need it to survive.

The study finding from 1885 is interesting but I would be cautious about reading too much into it. It sounds like a classic case of cherry picking a finding to support a conclusion without looking at all the available data. There probably has been many other populations of cancer patients since 1885 that had people with hypoglycemia and as well as those who did not. If the author of the finding had to go back over 130 years to find a study where all the cancer patients had hypoglycemia to support their conclusion and ignoring everything in the 130 years they are practicing bad science and that would never stand up to any kind if peer review or publication in a reputable medical journal.

I hope you continue to do well and see good results from your efforts.
Eric

[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:45 pm

Hi Eric.
you asked:
"wouldn’t any cell die without glucose, not just cancer cells?"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130201100149.htm

Summary: high (but not normal) sugar levels cause increased activity of B-catenin. Increased activity of B-catenin is known to be a major factor in the development of many cancers.

Here is another link and summary:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/

•“rapidly growing tumor cells typically have glycolic rates up to 200 times higher than those of their normal tissue of origin.”
•“In the 1980’s it was discovered a ketogenic diet reduced tumor size in mice.”
•“Recent research provides evidence that ketogenic diets may reduce tumor progression in humans, at least as far as gastric and brain cancers are concerned.”
•“Insulin inhibition is caused by ketogenic diet”.
•“ketogenic diets show promise as an aid in at least some kinds of cancer therapy.”

You are right that there are no clinical trials completed. I am jumping the gun and trying it on myself since I don't have the time to wait

[Eric Hofacket]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by Eric Hofacket on Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:22 pm

I see where keeping glucose at low levels can slow the metabolic rate of cancer cells and other cells as well but I just want to clarify that I do not believe it is possible to get to a no glucose state in vivo.

Some people may get confused by this. You were clear below that it was “in vitro” that cancer cells die when there is no glucose, but I believe any cell is going to die eventually with no glucose and that in vivo you cannot get to a no glucose state and stay alive.

1. Cancer cells become more and more "addicted" to glucose and vulnerable to glucose deprivation. In vitro (in test tubes), cancer cells die when there is no glucose!

On a related note, over the years I have read about how reducing caloric intake and slowing metabolism slows aging and increases the life span of many species and organisms, including humans. In some species, there can be dramatic increases in life span. I saw an interview with the doctor who was in the Biosphere experiment years ago is deeply involved with research in this area. When he was in the Biosphere and they could not produce enough food, they were on a severely calorie restricted diet. I do not know if they were slowly starving and this was unsustainable or not. But he was surprised to see on the routine physicals and monitoring he did that everyone’s vital signs and overall health improved and did not get worse. These were already people who were in decent shape overall, they were screened to be part of the team. This set him on the path of researching reduced calorie diets and longevity.

I have friends who are marine biologist and do research in the arctic and Antarctica oceans. The cold water dramatically slows metabolisms of many species there that are also found in warmer waters. The slowed metabolisms of the those in cold water leads to much longer life spans, sometimes centuries old. Often the species reach much larger physical size as well.

My take away from all of this is overeating is bad for one’s health, cancer or not, which is no big revelation, and I see how keeping calorie intake and glucose levels could have a meaningful impact on cancer progression. As you said earlier, though, getting people to change their habits is really hard. How many people know and are fully aware smoking is bad, yet still do it anyway? In a post I made earlier this year, I mentioned I saw a friend's sister die of brain cancer this year. She would come to meet us with her sister on Sundays when my cycling group would meet at Starbucks during our ride. I would see her go off by herself to her own table with all her hair gone, wearing her hat to keep warm, smoking a cigarette, which she did to the end. My HMO asks me frequently if I smoke and I do not, but if I did, I know they are going to offer me assistance to quit. You have to want to do it though, it is not going to be forced on you.

[antelope1225]

Re: Ketogenic diet and multiple myeloma

by antelope1225 on Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:56 pm

Yes, I agree Eric, there is no way to get to a "no glucose" situation in our bodies and I can see what you mean - no cells would live without glucose.

Calorie restriction also seemed to slow cancer - but I would rather cut out carbs.

I am probably the opposite extreme of your friends sister. I am sure people will raise their eyebrows at some of the things I am trying.

1. I eat very low carb and try not to have much artificial sweetener or foods with sugar alcohols.
2. I take 2 kinds of probiotics every day (4 total kinds but I rotate and take 2 at a time)
3. I make myself "bone broth" soup out of whole chickens or out of beef bones - thinking that might be good for my bone marrow.
4. my Vitamin D was low so my Nephrologist had me on 25,000 UI of Vit D once a week for 12 weeks -he does not want me to take other Vit D unless he prescribes it and it is too cold to go outside alot - so I have been going to a suntan booth 6 min 3 times per week (tanning bed needs to have UVB bulbs). The gals at the suntan place probably think I am nuts - not enough time to tan, but from what I have read, it is enough time to produce Vit D.
5. I weaned myself off Omeprazole by removing an additional grain from the stupid pills every few days - and I would put a capful of cider vinegar in water and drink it to help with heartburn as I was weaning myself off and still take a bit of vinegar in water if I get heartburn.
6. I don't want to take sleeping pills and if I wake and can't get back to sleep, I take a small sip of gin (Nyquil is mostly alcohol). If I cant sleep, at least I am relaxed - ha ha.

I would love any tips you have - obviously bicycling is one of your passions.