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Discussion about multiple myeloma treatments, stem cell transplants, clinical trials, alternative medicines, supplements, and their benefits and side effects.

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mark11 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:06 pm

Hi MikeF,

Let me say again when I think an allo transplant should be done: in FIRST COMPLETE RESPONSE. I would not do one any other time so the study you refer to is backing up my point:

You wrote,

Furthermore, there's no guarantee that you'll get that curative response from an allo transplant if you do survive. According to a study titled "Long-term survival after allogeneic stem cell transplantation for advanced stage multiple myeloma." (Br J Haematol. 2014 Aug;166(4):616-8. doi: 10.1111/bjh.12881. Epub 2014 Apr 4.), the majority of those who received allo-SCTs did relapse at some point. Sixteen out of 37 did not achieve beyond a partial response."

In my opinion, it is extremely dangerous to do an allo transplant at any time other than first CR. I do not consider an allo as a curative procedure if not done in first CR. Allos are not good at getting you to remission - but they can keep you there permanently.

You also wrote:

That's illustrated by the fourth article you reference (Biol Blood Marrow Transplant. 2006 Jun;12(6):648-55.) They started out looking to interview 309 patients who had received allo-SCTs. After 6 months, there were only 137 who could be interviewed. As is stated in the article, "In the TCD HRQL study, most interviews are missing because of patient illness or death." . They don't state whether these folks died as a direct result of the treatment, from advancing disease, or from some other cause, but that's not a heartening statistic."

Blood cancer patients die that do not do allo transplants. You would have to know more about disease status, risk characteristics etc of the patients to know if that is good or bad. Centers can lose followup with patients as well.

Note the difference in outcomes in this study between patients that do allos upfront or at relapse. The OS at 5 years is 77%.

When comparing patients who received a planned allogeneic transplantation upfront rather than later in the disease course, the former had a significantly better 2 year OS and PFS: 77% versus 43% (p<0.001) and 57% versus 28% (p=0.022) respectively (Figure 1). Patients in partial remission or better at the time of transplant also had a superior 2 year PFS (49% versus 24%, p=0.04), with no significant difference in OS. Patients who developed chronic GvHD had an improved OS (HR 0.65, 95% CI 0.29-1.44) and PFS (HR 0.77, 95% CI 0.34-1.71), however this did not reach statistical significance."

S Gerull et al, "Allogeneic Transplantation for Multiple Myeloma – the Swiss Experience," ASH 2011 Annual Meeting, Abstract 3112

The planned upfront looks right on par with Mayo clinic data of non-allo patients in this Beacon article. Also note the early mortality in this study.

Over the entire course of the study, 13 percent of the patients died within the first year of diagnosis. However, the one-year mortality rate significantly decreased during the study, from 16 percent for patients diag­nosed between 2001 and 2005, to 10 percent for patients diag­nosed between 2006 and 2010.

Patients who received one ore more novel agents as part of their initial therapy had lower early mortality com­pared to those who did not (8 percent versus 19 percent, respectively)"

"Survival Of Multiple Myeloma Patients Significantly Increases Over Last Decade," The Myeloma Beacon, Nov 1, 2011.

Early mortality is not zero in the non-allo setting.

Unfortunately allos do not work well in a relapsed setting and I would not consider one in a relapsed setting, but you are correct that it is when most patients do them.

Good luck moving forward and hopefully you will be one the 10% of patients that never relapses after an auto!

Mark

Mark11

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mike F on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:30 pm

All good points, Mark! Some people do an auto-SCT and don't get a complete remission, some relapse in one year, some in ten. Some people who do an allo don't get a remission, some relapse in one year, some never do. No treatment gives you any sort of guarantee that it will get you a long term improvement in your health status and QOL.

That said, as one who is in first complete remission, I'm still going with my plan. As I said, the risk vs. reward of an allo transplant (for me, and me only) just doesn't pencil out. That 57% 2 year PFS for those getting an allo after first remission isn't good enough for me to want to risk the potential consequences. That's given my particular version of the disease (low-to-medium risk), my age (56), my co-morbidities (none), and how I wish to live my life. I'm willing to bet that the good response I'm getting now will last long enough for improved low-risk therapies to come along.

Others may want to go a different route, and I don't think the allo idea should be rejected out of hand for anyone. As we all know, we each have a different disease and the right therapy for one is not the right therapy for another.

Mike F
Name: Mike F
Who do you know with myeloma?: Me
When were you/they diagnosed?: May 18, 2012
Age at diagnosis: 53

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mark11 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:37 pm

Hi Mutibilly,

We are not disagreeing enough these days!

I really could not see why a younger patient would not consider an upfront t-cell depleted allo at this point. There is almost zero chance at having extensive chronic GVHD, and Revlimid can work very well after an allo.

I know the Beacon Medical Advisors tend to not post in these types of threads, but it's worth pointing out that both Dr. Landau and Dr. Shain have been involved in some great studies with respect to allo transplants that were presented at the 2013 ASH meeting.

Long-lasting disease control can be achieved with TCD HSCT in pts with multiply relapsed multiple myeloma including those with high-risk cytogenetics in the absence of chronic GvHD. TRM and acute GvHD are low in these heavily pretreated pts. Outcome of TCD HSCT is influenced by numbers of regimens administered and disease status prior to allo BMT. Pts who failed to respond to standard chemotherapeutics pretransplant responded to reuse of this therapy post TCD HSCT.

Based on these results, we are aiming to perform TCD HSCT for pts with multiple myeloma who have high-risk cytogenetics at an earlier time point before multiple relapses develop and to integrate post transplant immunotherapeutic or immunomodulatory strategies to further reduce risk of relapse in these high-risk pts.

G Koehne et al (including Dr. Landau), "T-Cell Depleted Allogeneic Hematopoietic Stem Cell Transplantation For Patients With Relapsed Multiple Myeloma and High-Risk Cytogenetics Permits Long-Lasting Remissions In The Absence Of Graft-Versus-Host Disease," ASH 2013 Annual Meeting Abstract #2115

Also:

These results indicate that allogeneic HCT for multiple myeloma in VGPR or CR as consolidation achieves favorable disease control. The study is ongoing to assess long-term safety of this modality. A multicenter trial is planned to evaluate the utility of allogeneic HCT in high-risk multiple myeloma."

Taiga Nishihori et al (including Dr. Shain), "Allogeneic Hematopoietic Cell Transplantation Using Fludarabine, Mel­phalan and Bortezomib (Flu/Mel/Vel) Conditioning For Con­sol­i­da­tion Of VGPR Or CR In Myeloma," ASH 2013 Annual Meeting Abstract #3390

Mark

Mark11

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mark11 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:41 pm

Hi MikeF,

Thanks for the well thought out posts! Everybody learns from posts like yours and I am glad you read the links I provided. The reason I post them is that I hope patients will read them and form their own opinions of the data, not just take someone's word that calls a therapy they never did "Russian Roulette".

Mark

Mark11

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by vicstir on Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:17 pm

G'day Mark 11,

My initial intention when posting was to draw out people like yourself who have been through an allo and pick their brains.

Libby C has posted at length about her own experience and I have spoken to her personally on the phone and she has been most informative. But her allo was as a last resort scenario and I wanted to hear from those who were not in that same catogory.

Some questions for you if you are prepared to answer them. If not, that's ok.

  1. Are you / were you classed as being "high risk" due to cytogenics?
  2. What treatment(s) did you receive prior to your allo?
  3. What was your diagnosis M-spike and your M-spike post allo. (Forgive my lack of under­standing. You did say you had CR, I still don't completely understand what that means. Does it mean your M-spike was zero?).
Thanking you in advance, and congrats on your own response.

Yours, Vicki

vicstir
Name: Vic
Who do you know with myeloma?: Myself
When were you/they diagnosed?: October 2013
Age at diagnosis: 39

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mark11 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:18 pm

Hi Vicki,

I know we forgot that there are some newly diagnosed patients on and sometimes we use terms not everyone knows. I am going to attach a paper that explains how response should be reported in clinical trials. Definitely not a "fun read", but it will be good to know so you can understand the trial papers that you read. See Table 1 and 2 for a quick description of what a complete response and what a molecular response are.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710442/

I was considered a very high risk patient. I had cytogenetic abnormalities and I had circulating plasma cells (CPCs). Here is a paper showing circulating plasma cells as a negative for overall survival (OS) and progression free survival (PFS).

"The prognosis of pPCL was poor, with a median progression free survival (PFS) of 12 months and an overall survival (OS) of 15 months. Multiple myeloma patients with CPCs had a clearly inferior PFS and OS as compared with the control cohort. Most interestingly, although the CPCs were not high enough to meet the diagnostic criteria for pPCL, the survival of multiple myeloma patients with CPCs was comparable with that of pPCL, with a median PFS of 17 months and an OS of 25 months."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25231928

My particular subtype typically goes into complete response (CR) quicker than the typical myeloma patient. I got 3 opinions, and the consensus was that I would go into a CR, but it would only last for 12-20 months with an auto and Revlimid maintenance. My original treatment plan was to use Velcade based combos until I got to CR and than do a full (myeloablative conditioning) allo transplant.

Definition of myeloablative chemotherapy - High-dose chemotherapy that kills cells in the bone marrow, including cancer cells. It lowers the number of normal blood-forming cells in the bone marrow, and can cause severe side effects. Myeloablative chemotherapy is usually followed by a bone marrow or stem cell transplant to rebuild the bone marrow.
http://www.cancer.gov/dictionary?CdrID=650568

As it turned out my insurance only paid for a tandem auto - allo and would not approve the original treatment plan. I did 4 cycles of Velcade / Doxil / dex, which got me a very good partial response (VGPR). The auto got me to a CR. I did the myeloablative allo 4 months after my auto and I came out of the allo with a molecular response. A molecular response is the "highest" level of response according to IMWG (International Myeloma Working Group) criteria. I have not used any myeloma therapy since my allo. I honestly do not remember what my M-spike was at diagnosis. I remember having 90% plasma cells at diagnosis. My M-spike was zero when I did my allo.

That is great that you have spoken to Libby. I enjoy reading her posts. She is an incredibly upbeat, positive person. Unfortunately Libby did not respond a well as I did to the therapies preceding her allo. I do not have GVHD, as I did my allo in a similar manner as the study I posted above. Note that no patient had chronic GVHD in that study. I had limited chronic GVHD for 1 month and have not had any since. I had sore gums and a minor skin rash. It went away on its own and I have not had any sign of GVHD for roughly 3 years. I last took an immunosuppressive drug (ProGraf) in December 2011. The only drug I currently take is Zometa for my bones once every 3 months.
https://myelomabeacon.org/resources/mtgs/ash2013/abs/2115/

If a patient has active disease at the time of transplant they likely need GVHD to control the disease. GVHD is the "flip side" of the graft-vs-myeloma effect. Here is a short video with well known allo transplant expert Dr. Sergio Giralt. Note he mentions that patients that have active disease at the time of transplant likely need GVHD/GVM to control their disease. My donor donated marrow, which lessens the chance of chronic GVHD as opposed to peripheral blood stem cells, which Dr. Giralt mentions in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M1Pbrzvesc

I hope that helps. As you could tell, I am 100% satisfied I did the allo in first CR. I was diagnosed 4 years ago and I would do the same therapies again.

Mark

Mark11

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by vicstir on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:26 am

Thanks Mark for sharing and the links. Its a lot to digest.

vicstir
Name: Vic
Who do you know with myeloma?: Myself
When were you/they diagnosed?: October 2013
Age at diagnosis: 39

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Mike F on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:57 am

Mark - You've put up really good information that people need to know about in making treatment decisions. We'll all make our own decisions based on our own situations and inclinations, but we do need to make them from an educated standpoint. If people are rejecting options out of hand based on poor information, then that's a bad thing!

Mike F
Name: Mike F
Who do you know with myeloma?: Me
When were you/they diagnosed?: May 18, 2012
Age at diagnosis: 53

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by Eric T on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:33 am

Well, very interesting topic, and one I can give my answer to.

I have two teenage children, neither of which I am finished raising. Had a long talk with God when I was diagnosed with this disease, and basically said, look God, I really, really want to finish raising my kids. If this disease wants to take me, so be it, but please let me finish raising my kids. I kind of decided then and there that I was going to have some tough days ahead of me, but I would go through whatever I needed to in order to be here as long and as healthy as possible to raise my kids. So for me, the driving factor was doing everything I could to stick around as long as possible. A lot of what made my decision is where I am in life, and really what I wanted to accomplish.

I had my first auto in December 2010, after being diagnosed in the summer of 2009 with MGUS, which began advancing to active myeloma in February of 2010. Entered a trial of 280 mg of melphalan for the auto SCT, which, while tough, gave me a wonderful two plus year drug free complete remission.

In Spring 2013, my M-spike began to show slow signs of disease progression. A few months later after more progression, I entered a trial with Revlimid, dex and an HDAC inhibitor. First month, great results, M spike down about half, but it leveled off from there. Kept on with trial for 5 months, or 6 cycles of 4 weeks. The treatment kind of just leveled off and stayed there. This is where I had to decide my next course of treatment.

After the doctors decided that we needed a new direction, I had a long talk with my wife about available therapies, and there were several trials that interested me, but I really wanted to at least talk about the idea of doing an allo transplant. About a week later, me and my wife had a long question and answer session with my treating oncologist. I had educated myself pretty well prior to the meeting, so I was fairly aware of what trials I would qualify for, and what the science was behind their development, what sort of success they had so far, lab reports, etc. And after the question and answer session, I asked my oncologist at this point, not as my doc, but as a friend as well, if he was in my shoes, what would he do?

(I don't know if there is some sort of taboo about considering your oncologist a friend, but I love the guy, we have a lot in common, and I respect his opinion. Also, I do consider him a friend.)

He paused, thought for a;moment, and said the first time I met you, you stressed to me how important it was to be around for your kids. If I was in your shoes, I would do the allo. While the risks are certainly a major point to consider, given what you say your priorities are, I would do the allo.

I thanked him for his time, and me and my wife went home to talk about possibilities.

We went back and forth for about a day, but we both thought the allo gave me the best chance of a long-term remission, and while the risks were certainly something we both had to deal with, we made the decision to move forward with an allo if a donor could be found. If no donor was available, we would move on to plan B.

The reasons I chose the allo also had a lot to do with how I thought I would tolerate the procedure. I am relatively young, 49 at the time of doing the allo, in pretty good shape, although I do have a few pounds to lose. My attitude towards what I'm going through is as good as I think anyone could ask. I have tremendous family support, a job that has treated me incredibly well through all the time I have had to take off, and I am one of the more stubborn people you will ever meet. I think the good attitude has helped me the most, but stubborn does have its upside ...

One other reason I chose the allo is I believe that in roughly ten years, we will have this disease medically under control. Maybe not completely cured, but a minimal chance of dying as a result of the disease. So I purposefully chose a therapy that I believe has the best chance of me seeing 2024.

Now, dying as a result of the allo was and is a major concern for me, and the thought that I was playing Russian Roulette was a real consideration. (Maybe I watched "The Deer Hunter" too many times, but I kept seeing myself at a table with a gun in hand, with some guy yelling MAO! at me). I don't think anybody who willfully and knowledgeably takes the risks associated with an allo cannot have those kinds of thoughts, but, for me, I weighed the pluses and minuses, and stand behind my decision to have the allo.

The absolute hardest thing for me about choosing the allo was having an honest and frank conversation with my kids about the risks. I thought they deserved to know ahead of time what I was choosing to do, what the risks were, and what they thought. My kids were great, sad, worried, and I even gave them veto rights if they wanted to think about it (I am also blessed with the two best kids in the world. They're awesome).

They both said that I should do what I thought best, and they would be there for me. They had lots of questions, some easy, some tough, and some points of view that I hadn't completely considered as well. I look forward to a few years from now when they can tell me what they really thought. I'm curious.

A long story short, I had an auto/allo this year, and am now about 4 months out from my allo. Fatigue has probably been my biggest obstacle, although I am back at work a few days a week, and every week get a little stronger. I have had some issues with GVHD, but so far low levels of treatment have kept it under control.

All in all, I would say that I had a harder time with my first auto (280 mg melphalan) than either of the last two transplants I had this year. It could be that I knew what to expect, but I think the two this year were slightly easier. Now, I did NOT say easy, I said easier. Big difference ...

If I had to choose again, I would still choose to go the allo route, I just believe it gives me the best chance for a long remission, and a good shot at walking my daughter down the aisle some day.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought I would give you the best insight to my thoughts as I could.

Eric

Eric T
Name: Eric T
Who do you know with myeloma?: Myself
When were you/they diagnosed?: June, 2009
Age at diagnosis: 46

Re: Allo transplantation - what are your thoughts?

by goldmine848 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:48 am

Eric,

Very interesting and informative post. I wish you the best.

If I may ask, at what facility did you have your allo?

goldmine848
Name: Andrew
When were you/they diagnosed?: June 2013
Age at diagnosis: 60

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